Let’s Talk CJ

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Intro: Welcome to the Let’s Talk Government Podcast that is provided for you by the Department of Government at Minnesota State University, Mankato located in Minnesota in the United States. I am your host Dr. Pat Nelson the chairperson of the Government Department. I want to thank you for joining us as we explore different topics about government. Some may be surprising to you and some may not, so please enjoy.
Dr. Nelson: Welcome to episode 15 of the Let's Talk Government podcast. Today, we're going to talk about international impact of the rise of undemocratic forces and the violent anti-establishment right wing movement in the United States. Today, I'm joined by Dr. Abdalla Battah and Dr. Tom Inglot from the international relations program at Minnesota State University, Mankato. You will recognize our honored guests from some prior episodes of the podcast. So I think the most obvious place to start is why don't we start about the defeat of president Trump and his far right wave that came up during that defeat. How does that impact us in the international world? Dr. Battah, would you like to start?
Dr. Abdalla Battah: Yeah, sure. I think, I think one of the most significant worldwide, uh, currents that has taken place in the last, let's say two decades, it's nothing new, but in the last two decades, we've seen a surge of right-wing far right-wing, uh, movements that, uh, altogether, whether they are in the United States or elsewhere in the world, share a number of common characteristics, uh, and you know, adapted to each country obviously, but there are a lot of commonalities to them. So I think this is, uh, quite significant in world politics. And, um, I think attended to that is the idea that, uh, leaders of countries think as, uh, president Trump would like them to think of their country first or America first, um, New Zealand first, uh, uh, you know, Belgium first, France, first, UK first and so on. And that has a huge impact in international relations, not to mention of course, all of the other important things that have to do with immigration and having to do with multiculturalism and having to do with multi-lateralism, you know, and, um, and, uh, uh, all of those, all of those issues are definitely impacted now the demise of the Trump administration and a fiasco that culminated all of this, uh, namely the attempt by, um, the leader of the extremist, uh, president Trump, uh, attempt to essentially stage a coup, uh, of sorts, uh, against the oldest democracy around and most viable democracy. And that obviously did not succeed, but, uh, one thinks back at it and thinks that that could have been very, very bloody and very, very tragic for the United States. I think there are lessons also to be learned from that, uh, in the other cases around the world,
Dr. Nelson: Before we go to Dr. Inglot, uh, Dr. Battah, you threw out a phrase that probably most of our listeners have never heard. We've all heard of multiculturalism, but will you explain what you meant by multi-lateralism
Dr. Abdalla Battah: Multi-lateralism in international relations refers to basically, uh, countries coming together, jointly making decisions about important matters relating to them and to the world at large. And the opposite of that, uh, there's a vicious definition would be, unilateralism an example of that would be for example, president George W. Bush, uh, invading Iraq. And, uh, basically we want to do with, regardless of what the rest of the world thinks about it. And multi-lateralism a good example of that would be what his dad did back in 1991, uh, where, uh, when the United States led the campaign to expel Iraq from Kuwait, that would be multilateral under the umbrella of the Yuan and the security council joined by some 30 plus countries. Whereas his son is venture or misadventure, if you will, to Iraq while it's unilateral, meaning we got to do it, uh, you know, regardless of what all Europe thinks about it, regardless of what the public thinks about it, or the rest of the world, we get to do it. Anybody who wants to join us can be a part of this so-called, um, coalition of the willing,
Dr. Nelson: Well, great. Thank you. I think listeners probably just learned a new phrase for a concept that they understand. So Dr. English, what do you think, Oh, what do you think about the defeat of president Trump and the far right movement?
Dr. Tom Inglot: Okay. Uh, we can look at it from the standpoint of defeat and we can also look at that standpoint of what we learned from it and what lasting impact Trump had. So of course the defeat itself is very, you know, the reason for optimism and when other countries embraced it, but also Trump unleashed forces that are far from defeated around the world. And so from the optimistic standpoint, there are number of people that are widely painted by the same brushes. Quote-unquote liberal elites, Which sometimes it's a pejorative term because we live in a time and age when any kind of elite is considered the enemy of people in democracies, which I can return to later. But the so-called democratic forces, democratic parties that represent establishment, especially in Europe, great Britain, Canada countries like that, uh, even developing countries like in Latin America, Africa, a lot of people who are looking with a very optimistic way in the nineties, early two thousands, when democracy was spreading that kind of group, uh, of course there's optimism that something can be saved from, uh, you know, about my years and even earlier when America was leading, so hope that Biden can, and he's giving us that hope because he getting all these speeches and proclamations that he can repair the damage. So there's that part we don't know yet how successful, but there's also another side to it, which is a fear that those forces are of course, much bigger than Trump. And they still spread around the world like Dr. Battah was saying about the right-wing extremism and nationalism. And I just, we read recently, um, uh, this famous article by Francis Fukuyama, the end of history, where he talks about what's going to happen. He was very optimistic. And of course, people accused him of being too optimistic that democracy will try and all that. So now the obvious reaction will be that's another confirmation that, uh, Fukuyama was wrong because democracy is not triumphing. And, but, uh, something important. He said, you know, what's the potential of nationalism to connect, uh, these right-wing forces around the world. And, uh, he said that fascism was different because it's shirt, a sweeping ideology that was easily transportable between Italy and Spain and Germany and all that. And it had a lot of connecting elements that could be implanted in many countries, even though in practice, these countries will not the same, or they had much more of a sweeping, uh, global appeal, which contemporary nationalism, according to him, didn't have. So let's look at Trump as a national residence, you have an appeal or not on one hand, you know, he can say Steve Bannon travel to all these countries are trying to create this, this nationalist international group, which is a contradiction in terms because every country is pulling its own way. You cannot be America first and Britain first or China first at the same time, because countries are competing. So, um, but on, on one level, like I said, he is kind of re-ignited and encourage each country to pull its own way. Can I give you an example? Because a family member of mine traveled to China right after Trump announced his America first policy and was standing in line customs, you know, control and passport control. And that person is the only American in line with an American passport was in the front. But that official pool, that person to the back and said, I'll stand on the back. And half an hour passes one hour passes, and she's still on the back. I said, what happens? And she's finally almost the plane is taking off. And she's the last one to do it and shows the, the says, what happened? Why did you put me on, on, on the back of the line? And this official says, China, first, this is a real example that really happened,
Dr. Nelson: Right. Oh my gosh. Wow. Um, so, you know, that's actually very interesting because that was part of Trump's mantra is, you know, make America great, put America first, which is definitely an isolationism type philosophy. Where are we still seeing that? I mean, Trump is now out of presidency and we know there's not a magic switch that resets everything when president sees transition, but are we still seeing that putting the country first around the world that hasn't really changed much in the last month? And if so, can you give me an example? Like the first one I think of as Britain right now, it's they pulled out of the, uh, the EU they're very much now Britain is important, but other other examples that are close to,
Dr. Tom Inglot: Oh, definitely the Poland I follow closely is exactly the same sentiment. And it touches on many different levels because I'm not going to use it as this example, but everywhere in the world, two different levels. One example of going first would be to emphasize what the countries dig in its own, you know, creating its own myth, its own history that supposedly that there are separate from other histories like countries in Europe, they want to be, you know, subordinated to the European union. They want to follow their own policy, their own culture, even religion in Poland. Religion is a big thing that is dividing society and so forth. But there's also another level, uh, you know, uh, that we have to talk about when we say America's impact. We have to remember that America is the leader, not just in terms of power, the military, but also this course we provide because English is the world language and not British English anymore and American English, which is not the same, their vocabulary expressions. If you watch, I am just watching this Danish movie from some years past the bargain on Netflix. And when they communicate, uh, you know, at different levels in society, they use American express American words all the time in every language. And it's not just the words, it's the meaning. You know, when America is America's, this course is translated into other countries course, and that includes the right wing expressions. And that one thing I want to emphasize, because I don't want to monopolize this discussion just to end it this deep anti-state sentiment. So whoever is against this state and Trump use with, and the media, this is another connecting element. So supposedly we all governed by this cabal of secret bureaucracy, state political party leads the mainstream media, how they speak this language that Trump emphasized so much, this is in every country being used by. And, uh, we already talked about it both left and right wing opponents of the state as such, which means the structure that holds any government together in any society. And that is being undermined in so many different levels. And Trump contributed to it because he was saying, I'm a business man, coming from the outside, I'm going to destroy this state. This is your enemy, but then he did not propose anything to replace it. So we have this huge anarchical movement around the world, many different shades and sizes. And I guess every state, which is confusing people and not showing any directions, but, you know, just wracking the system. That's the big call right now.
Dr. Abdalla Battah: If I may just add a little bit to, this is, uh, the widespread anti establishment, anti establishment in the form of the state of horse, uh, and, uh, uh, which helped, uh, the marginal far, uh, uh, right extremists to rise up and, and, uh, you know, come in to represent the downtrodden, so to speak. Uh, and the other side of it in terms of Europe, of course, is, uh, the AAU NTEU. And this is beyond the, beyond the, uh, Britain and Ferraris Brexit party, uh, or ban in Hungary, likewise Le pen, uh, in France, uh, the alternative in Germany, uh, all of them basically are, uh, anti EU with different manifestations of that. But I do think that it is so much, it is so much Trumpism that, um, that we could grow. Um, this is from, with respect to this one, because I do think that there are objective objective conditions that in part, um, uh, responsible for this, I think one of them has to do with the fact that many of these countries experienced recession, and it became a burden on the EU, uh, whether it's Ireland or whether it's degrees or others, uh, and, uh, economic conditions, I think are an important factor. Another one, the, um, refugee crisis say 1914, 19, I'm sorry, 2014, 2015 on, uh, I think is in part responsible for that. I think, I think, uh, the coming all particularly Muslims, not immigrants, I mean, you, you hear the talk and Slovenia and Poland, and some of the other places is white. Immigration is fine, but Brown immigration is not patient. Immigration is fine, but not Muslim immigration is it is not. And, uh, I think that that is part of it and that relates to cultural identity. And, uh, you know, I mean, there are people in Germany and elsewhere who in France who call themselves your generation identity. Um, and, and the call is to re conquer Europe. We can create that's the terminology. We conquer Europe, uh, you know, for the white Christian, uh, you know, uh, ethnic groups. And, uh, essentially the idea is to expel everybody else. And so I think these conditions, uh, will continue to read there. And I do think that here, you know, the optimism that focal Yammer had, I remember for crema is writing in the late 1980s. The Soviet union is about to fall. The Berlin wall fell. Uh, there was consensus about the role of NATO and the EU became stronger if you will, there was a sense of optimism. And, uh, but of course those conditions don't, don't stand still. So to speak they've changed. And with that, uh, unpredictable things happen. I mean, who would have thought, um, some of the, you know, people on the margins gaining power, including Trump, including, uh, Macron Macron's, uh, partner in creating, uh, on March, uh, indicated that all we had was a website and a database of members, that's it, there wasn't much of any, you know, marketing campaign in here that, uh, kind of took over, uh, it was, it was on the fence. And, uh, the same thing, I think one would say whether the president Trump, president Trump, uh, auditioned for the extreme far, right, uh, groups here to kind of burn his, his credentials, uh, by beginning to talk about, uh, president Obama as being important, you know, and then you just take it over and all of those liberals that are, you know, helping him and, and to emerge as the, the reader, but nobody would have thought that Trump would make it a closed the white house. Uh, he did, right. And he emerged as the leader of the conglomerate far, right in the United States is not attached to anyone brash, if you will. But he presents that, you know, the whole, and so beyond Trump, I think there are conditions that will continue to impact, uh, you know, the currents, uh, the political currents in Europe and elsewhere in the world.
Dr. Nelson: So I want to take a little bit of a jot down a philosophical lane, as we're talking about this, some ideas popped into my head, but how much do you think the imp the distance in memory? So world war two, if we're looking at world war II, that the generations that were adults during world war II are passing away. The number is very low. You have children that were born at world war II, and after that are now in positions of power, but thinking about the world impact of world war one and world war II, we have very few people who are actually alive that can share the narrative and the actual history of that. And does that impact our ideas about isolationism and coalitions? Because we don't have that memory. And then the other one I want to throw out since you brought up Berlin wall, um, is that's been over 30 years. So the people that have actual memory of that do not include the younger generations. Um, if you're looking at the ones that are in high school now in college now in the workforce, they have no concept of what the division was between Europe and Russia and the Berlin wall in Germany. Do you think the loss of that actual physical memory about those major times in world history is impacting our ideas about isolationism and partnerships
Dr. Tom Inglot:
You want me to take this one? Andto clarify one thing, um, uh, what Abdallah just said, uh, on, on the impact of Trump is mine was I absolutely agree that there are all these domestic and foreign, uh, you know, sources in every society of these changes, including the U S but what I was going to say, and maybe I didn't explain it well, it was that what has not changed now is, and it still continues despite the weakness of the United States is the fact that all these societies, when they make an argument, why they should build this, why they should attack the state, why they should believe in right-wing ideologies, they use the United States constantly as a point of reference, they need an outside power to validate their own arguments. Not so much, this is not the cause of what's going on is just that an additional, you know, explanation. They, they use in every discussion, especially smaller countries. They say about look at the United States and all sides use it to their own advantage. Okay. And Trump gave ammunition to those forces that were marginalized. And now they can say, Oh, America is, and also forces that attack the order. And when it comes to generations, because it's true, there's one of our generation now. And the way we study history, if someone is paying attention, they've been wonderful studies. And we have so much information. What actually happened those bad than good with the war. And after the war and with the Berlin wall, we have so much access to good, solid information and reset if we wanted to. But the problem is, of course nobody's reading anymore. Nobody's following. So right after the war, there were a lot of things that were not well researched about people reading, following, arguing. Now nobody's interested. So people are not reading anything. They're watching videos on YouTube. So we cannot have a real debate on those issues. Even though we have information, even the more perhaps than eye witnesses had, because we can know more about color costs from all these studies now than one or two eyewitnesses who now the slice of, from their own experience, however horrible it was. But there's so much you can learn if you want to, but the problem is who wants to write. So there's no discussion and there's a danger in it because anything, you now talk about this, you know, filled with emotion and half truth misinterpretations, wrong sources. So the, the, the it's impossible to hold a reason, the bait, and also sell it to the public, make the public aware that all this knowledge, it's your, your disposal, it's your computer just access it, but nobody wants to do it. So, you know, people want to be interested in, in making money and, you know, engaging in, in, uh, economic success and whatever it is, one of the problems of this generation, of course, it's not true. It's, it's a lot of inequality, but an average family lives much better than ever lived in this society. So it's not, you know, this, this most desperate and poor people who are joining those movements. So business owners, which is right in the New York times yesterday, that, you know, a large percentage of those people who stormed the cup filled with business owners, people with good professional jobs, military, former military, former police, it's a cross section of society from different walks of life, young and old women, and, uh, you know, regular people next door. So it's not the impoverished rising against the, you know, the CRI economic crisis. It's, it's much more complicated than that.
Dr. Abdalla Battah: Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, history is not, um, I think history is like a chest of resources that we returned to and select from it. Those which support our inclinations. And I think that's what happens with people. So people find inspiration going back to the civil war, right. And that's what they would carry the Confederacy flag into the, into the white house. So I, that was their inspiration. Uh, but here's a good example is where you have in Europe, a plethora of, uh, entities that are Neo Nazi, fascist, the groups that are emerging, uh, including in France, including a fresh new, and that's the groups associated with Felice, for example, uh, in Greece, in Sweden, the Swedish, uh, you know, party and, and others and UCLA, well, the recent history says, this is something that you wouldn't want to emulate. Uh, but there we go, same thing in the United States, Neo Nazi groups. So people look back to the history and look for inspiration. I remember the guy that, uh, that made the attack on Christ chairs to New Zealand and kept 51 worshipers in a mosque and his, his, his gun, you know, had pictures on it and, and historical, uh, you know, uh, uh, historical facts, if you will, and a occluding, including the mention of the Polish King that, um, uh, that expelled the, uh, or broke the siege that the army had VM that, I mean, I remember, I remember in the Bosnia Serbian, uh, Bosnia-Herzegovina fight versus, uh, Serbia and where the Serbia is. We're talking about year 13, 89 year, 1389. Wow. They remember the Ottoman empire, you know, what it did to them in youth 1389, selectively, this is what we select from history. Those which support our inclinations and politics is about expediency and opportunism. And so those demagogues that, uh, can explore that and the much like president Trump eloquent, but the demagogue exploited it and, uh, you know, Rose to power and the system allowed for that, you know.
Dr. Nelson: Well, thank you for indulging my little, uh, question about history and, and, uh, so let's, let's kind of come back to current times here. So we know that the United States has used it as an example in parts of arguments, but what about our relationships? We now have, I have had a transition transition in presidency, but how has our relationship going to be different, or maybe even constrained with, let's start with the Latin American countries. We note some of them were very big supporters of Trump. What do you anticipate that relationship being with them as we move forward? Like Mexico? Yeah,
Dr. Abdalla Battah: Well, that's interesting, but I, Uh, you know, what I noticed right away with Biden, I noticed very little attention to Latin America. And that's been, it's kind of interesting that the only president that paid attention to Mexico right away, and it's something, which is our closest neighbor, was paradoxically George W. Bush, because I spoke to the, we had a visitor on campus and many years ago, his name was Jorge Castaneda. He was a former presidential candidate in Mexico and foreign minister of Mexico during the Iraq war. So I had the privilege of hosting him and talked to him extensively, and I was driving him to campus. And he explained to me that this was the only president who really cared about Mexico and solving the immigration issue because he, his first visit, you know, to the white house that he invited was Mexican president Fox. So that problem has been festering for years, but that's been the case for all administrations and Biden is no exception, completely ignoring Latin America as a priority. So I don't see much hope there because their relations are strained. Of course, Venezuela is a big issue. We don't have a good policy towards these countries that are sending the migrants. It's not Mexico. It's sending migrants to us. Now it's Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala, these three countries, and you have very bad relationship with them. We don't have a good program to ensure that maybe we have some legal migration or something going on in the countries are in very bad economic shape. So, and there are small countries. So the amount of money we are spending in Iraq and Afghanistan, if you took only a fraction of this money and spent to have these three small countries, then it will be so much progress and people stop coming, but we never done it. So there is no lobby. There is no strong lobby product in America. And when I look at, because I recently re kind of, we watched this video and I recommend everyone to watch it. It's called the final year LGPL video or the last year of the Obama administration and it's available canopy. So I watched it and I also use it for my classes. So that kind of described from the kitchen side, it was kind of an internal video camera going through all these nooks and crannies of the white house and the interviewing people who made the foreign policy under Obama. And I see the same crowd kind of joining by then. Now with almost no exception is kind of the same people coming back. So they don't have many new faces and nobody really interested in Latin America that much, that I see, they are proud. We have Latinos in this position that presented, but there's a difference, you know, having lucky Latinos from America, as opposed to, you know, anyone from Latin America and caring about them. So I don't see much progress, unfortunately. And the, like I said, previously, because of this transactional nature and some populist leaders who liked Trump, we had paradoxically better relations than we are going to have. Now. That's what I see. And when it comes to other parts of the world is also pretty confusing because Europe has learned the lesson and we cannot afford to rely on America. And now not relying on America, meaning, relying on its own resources. So they are acting pretty boldly, but they are kind of shooting above their weight because Europe is not ready to act in unison on the level. They pretend that they can act. They tried with the vaccine and just fell flat on their face because they are not ready for something that they thought, Oh, after Brexit, we'll show them that we can do things in grand scale. We can feed an army. We can vaccinate everybody. They cannot even secure the borders. Well, his arguments. So, you know, it's still years away from doing that. And of course we have Germany in crisis as well, which was the main European country putting everyone together, right. There's conflict. So, you know, United States is still this in quote, indispensable force that people want to rely upon, but of course it's not strong anymore. So we have a vacuum being created, and I'm not sure if Biden can fill the vacuum with these executive orders and actions, you know, you need a bold vision. You need a lot of money, which we don't have to. You know, I did some informal discussion with my students and it's like 99% of all people in this country believe we should not spend a cent overseas. We should spend all the money at home. So that's another barrier. So I can go on and on, on this topic, it's, it's really a very difficult situation.
Dr. Nelson: Well, and I'd like to just take a moment to have Dr. Battah talk about maybe what the, excuse me impact would be in the middle East with our relationships with Saudi Arabia, Iran, what do you see happening there,
Dr. Abdalla Battah: There is a correction that is taking place, uh, from the Trump administration. What the Trump has done significantly in foreign policy was the, uh, making the United States, uh, party for party to the Arab Israeli conflict and the endowment. He has given Israel, uh, by rubber stamping Jerusalem as its capital and Y uh, by using the significant leverage in States has, uh, with weak, small countries in the Gulf. Uh [inaudible] and, uh, and Morocco, uh, so then, uh, countries that are in trouble and, um, to normalize with Israel, uh, in spite of the fact that Israel continues to occupy and expand, uh it's uh, it's, Uh, it's it's control over the, uh, Palestinian Territories, uh, negating essentially what, uh, had been a consensus in the international community, namely the creation of a two state for the two parties to the so-called two-state solution, which United States, uh, promoted, uh, but, uh, now is behind now, uh, what can president, uh, Biden do, perhaps not much, uh, in this area, but obviously this will have to be reversed, but I don't think he will have the leverage to reverse it because the us Congress is more, uh, uh, more, uh, hawkish, uh, then there's really government in these areas. And that's why some people said that, you know, among the other areas occupied by Israel is Washington DC, you know, because of the support that the Congress gives blind support, uh, in always political and monetary and so on and so forth. So this is a core problem in the region that everything, if you look closely relates to it one way or the other. And so that I think, uh, and perhaps a four 50, not a whole lot can be done about it in the very short, very short term and likely to, to, to, uh, lead, to disastrous consequences down the road, because the status quo is untenable is extremely untenable. It's not going to last forever. Um, uh, so that's, that's one, I think, uh, the role of the United States has expanded in some respects, people full Trump was pulling his tubes out of, and he did pull some troops out, but he also injected some other tubes. And when it came to what he was doing in Syria, for example, he said what we shifted them to the, to the Island areas because we want to control the oil. I mean, he didn't have any hesitation in saying, is saying that. And, uh, so United States, uh, I think called will moderate a little bit, uh, because president violin talked about, um, uh, pulling the plug on the support of this audience, for example, in the Yemen world, it's been tragic disasters. And I said, it's been a parcel to the Saudis in that disastrous, uh, war, uh, an intervention in there, likewise, perhaps in stadia and elsewhere. So we will see some moderation, but not gigantic, uh, leaves because I don't think, uh, positive invited, uh, you know, is, you know, has in mind any major initiatives in that area, United States policy has been to manage conflict and keep it under wraps. That's been the case. Um, but what, uh, Trump did obviously is, uh, is, uh, you know, brought everything, you know, on each hit and interjected in major ways, making his son-in-laws the arbiter of peace in the middle East, as well as other areas in the world. So that's what I think would [inaudible] Eastern terms of Iran. Uh, I think United States would return to the negotiating table because that's really the vessel alternative available, not withstanding that, uh, president Trump had toward Iran, Iran got stronger and got closer to a nuclear weapon and that his, um, you know, that his administration than before, uh, the same thing with North Korea, not withstanding the bombastic rhetoric that the president had. Vis-a-vis North Korea, North Korea today is a closer, much closer. It, of course it does have nuclear weapons to other areas, including, uh, long range missiles and other areas. So little change, I think, but normal, and that's an improvement, that's an improvement because at least it brings down the patients that could otherwise be there.
Dr. Tom Inglot: Yeah. I have something to add. I was thinking as, as Vela was speaking about the middle East, which I know much less about that, I just heard today in the news that Saudi Arabia is being cut off from our aid, not only the hardware, but actual technical assistance, because they're presently all these planes, sophisticated planes that we're using in Yemen for bombing, they were all serviced by American personnel on the ground. They were putting the bombs on, they were checking the technical condition of the claims. So all those things are being pulled away. So it's not only the hardware, they're not going to sell them more weapons, but they're going to pull out all the technical assistance. So definitely Saudi Arabia is probably fearing the most what's going to happen. But when I look at the whole of middle East, it's basically our foreign policy for a long time, had three legs and were not necessarily coordinated. That was Israel, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt, the most important allies for years and decades. So I don't think it's going to last even Israel because now by then is, is, is already said he does not support settlements. And he wants to have an outreach to the Palestinian authority and things like that. So, but the question is, what's going to replace it. I'm afraid that no Alliance will be possible in the region with any country now. And that's a problem because we cannot have a good time with Iran, no matter what happens. Third is already lost because they prefer to do a Trump in a way and negotiate with Russia and whoever comes along. So president Erdogan of Turkey is a complete lunatic when it comes to his outlook. So we cannot rely on him and there's no other country I can think of that we can rely upon to contract, uh, you know, Iraq blue in our face. It's supposed to be a big lie, but now they are more controlled by Iran than anyone else. So I don't see any future with us having true alliances in the region. And that's a big challenge for Biden. I don't know what he's going to do.
Dr. Abdalla Battah: Well, what I was gonna say is, you know, we'd talk about, I mentioned the commonalities among those farm right. Groups that have to do with being idea establishment anti-Jewish empty Lamach, uh, and the anti multicurrency culturalism. It isn't a lot of the conservative elements. Yeah. You know, and that, um, and, uh, uh, uh, multi anti multiculturalism, as I said, and I think, uh, you know, for example, I look at the Europeans and she, you know, their anti-immigrant anti-refugee sentiment. And I say, well, these Europeans were all too happy to, uh, recruit, uh, people from the Commonwealth countries, from the Caribbean, from Asia to come in and rebuild Europe after the second world war were to happy to get them. Not only that we're too happy to colonize them, colonize those areas. And we're too happy to support misadventures in the middle East, for example, uh, that, uh, ruined the economies there led to refugees. And they also, the role that is played by United States and Europe in the middle East, for example, that war in Iraq and the devastation that took place there, wreaked havoc in the region at, went from Iraq to Syria, to elsewhere, basically the interventions in Yemen, the intervention in Olivia, um, eh, you know, uh, in Syria and elsewhere, all of those have to be factored into the equation the far right after enough things about it in terms of assimilation, you know, and, uh, cultural issues. And here we have been invaded by Muslims who are going to change our culture and take our land and make us a minority in our, in our land without thinking about the consequences that is who from the, uh, interventions and the, you know, are all paid by the major powers, including the United States and the European countries, NATO and others. Um, all of that has to be factored in, I think in our discussion about the far right, the conditions I think, and those commonalities will continue. Uh, some of them, they will continue because, you know, I mean, uh, we know here president Trump I'm past, uh, use tax cut, and we said, [inaudible] plus, uh, present our crone is considered to be the president of the rich or the poor economic troubles will make people who are downtrodden, uh, resenting the establishment and want to rebel. So the take over the conquering, the conquering of the white of the Congress, the conquering of Europe, uh, is basically their, you know, their, uh, their, uh, you know, a rally cry, so to speak, uh, because that's what they're thinking, they're thinking is we want our country back. We want our culture back. We want it back. It's like, okay, who snatched it from me? So I think that will continue. I think we will continue to see this wave, uh, that is the far right. Continuing for the foreseeable future. And those tensions will continue to be there, but perhaps, uh, hopefully things will stabilize down the road.
Dr. Nelson: Well, you actually just did a better summary than the question I was going to ask you, but here, I'm going to put both of you in the hot seat for your closing thoughts. So you are now an advisor to president Biden on foreign policy, and he wants to know what should he do now in the short-term, what should he address first? Um, is there a specific country? Is there a specific policy? Is there some specific appointments he needs to make? And I'm going to put you on the hot seat to decide on something he should do right now. What advice would you give him? And I'm going to go back to Dr. Battah then we'll end with Dr. Inglot. So what would you tell him
Dr. Abdalla Battah: I am so that I'm receiving a call at the same time you to pull the plug on the call? Well, I think, you know, he's doing some of that already. I think, uh, uh, the, the notion that you not say should pull the plug from the, what I call partnership in Yemen, uh, because that has really resulted in a genocide that what else we could call that country been devastated by the intervention sponsored by the Saudis and the United Emirates with conflicting agendas are actually, uh, under the guise that while they're fighting Iranian forces on a Yemeni land, uh, I, I still, I think, you know, that the vital musicians seems to be wanting to do something about that one a bit more difficult, the other Israeli conflict, I think that it turned to the table and to do something to reverse the, uh, I think the rubber stamping that was made by the Trump administration unilaterally, no negotiations, no consultation whatsoever. This is what he called the deal of the century. And, um, yeah, it did have the century whom it certainly wasn't a end of the century for Israel to the exclusion of, uh, the interlocutors on the other side that could negotiate with it. I think some moderation in that is likely to take place, but perhaps not very substantive in the short term. Uh, I think, uh, moderating the tensions with Iran would be another one, uh, stabilizing Iraq. Iraq is in Ms as well that have Syria, uh, Syria, likewise, um, you know, improving activities, the atmosphere, and that is good. That's, uh, that's positive. So that's what I think that there's what needs to be done in WTS. Now, obviously in terms of NATO, it of the others returning into simply multi-lateralism is very, very important. The United States is an important, uh, member of NATO, uh, needs to take its proper seat there and not just be just another, another country or talk about withdrawal is very, very significant.
Dr. Nelson: Allright. Well, thank you. All right, Dr. Inglot, what would you be?
Dr. Tom Inglot: I just focus on the one element because a doctor, but that just cover the whole world. I am just focused on one element that I think is missing. It's been kind of talked about on the margins, but Biden is contemplating holding a democracy summit by the end of the year, kind of re-invigorated the image of, and meaning of democracy around and around the globe, but what I think he should do and, uh, you know, is be careful not to repeat this kind of a summit of world leaders and major figures, you know, heads of government and so forth, but other reach out to the people and what I have specifically in mind that we have a new wave of resentment toward this censorship of social media, which is picking up in many different shapes and forms. And I think what happened is that the billions of people around the world, flocked to Facebook and Twitter and telegram and all that, and they were convinced by the very skillful marketing propaganda of these companies, that they are joining a free world community of expression for getting that from the very beginning. I don't know how that happened. That so few people realize from the very beginning, they should have known it was a commercial enterprise built on profit and who is in charge of it as the owners of these companies. This is not people are not the owners of the social media, but this was the idea that they hope to join that has now been completely compromised. And there are all kinds of forces. And that includes far, right. That includes far left that have one joint project that they focused on, which is fight the censorship and also fight the government. We supposedly condoning this, right? So what do we need to do is an outreach that focuses on this and other aspects that can allow democracy to flourish, to give people sense of empowerment. And also that maybe government working with not just the companies, but civic organizations, movements, democratic movements, make sure that social media are for the people. And the government has helped them access this, not ruled by three or four individuals who have billions of dollars, not dominated by some shadowy, extreme groups, but something that we can really use to make democracy real and, and, you know, have some substance. That's what young people expect right now.
Dr. Nelson: Well, thank you both. You always, I love talking with you, cause I always know that there's more, I need to pay attention to in the world. So I do appreciate that and I appreciate your thoughts on this. So thank you for joining me.

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